How difficult was your transition to the civilian workforce and explain why it was easier or more difficult than expected?


Responses from Army enlisted veterans
(regardless of rank, education, years of service, specialty, age or gender)


1

More difficult

In my situation, I am about a month from graduating with my bachelor degree and the jobs that interest me want civilian experience and certifications.

2

As expected

What I trained for you had to know some one or be politically connected; I worked for what i got not given to me.

3

Easier

The job found me, I didn't find the job and it fit my skill sets.

4

More difficult

Feel the transition was not at all useful.

5

More difficult

The true understanding of what I was getting myself prepared for

6

More difficult

As a reservist called to active duty I largely expected to step directly back into my life. This did not happen as expected. I was surprised by how antisocial I was during those first weeks and how valuable it was for me to just have some alone time to relax.

7

More difficult

Looking for something that related to my military job and that would offer a chance for career development/advancment

8

Easier

Being a career Engineer I had readily marketable skills, being an E9 helped move those skills directly into the management level in the civilian workforce.

9

More difficult

As a 22-year Army veteran, I expected my level of leadership experience would work to my benefit. However, the opposite was true...while I had the experience, education, and certifications that employers were seeking, I had no "corporate experience", so I was usually brushed aside.

10

As expected

I knew I was going for self employment, and that worked out till I could not do it any more due to service connected injuries.

11

More difficult

Acap & companies assisted senior NCO's & officers

12

More difficult

It took a lot longer to get a job than I thought it would.

13

More difficult

The first job lasted 2 years and the second lasted 6 months (Government Contract) But the search and transition afterwards was very difficult and still is. After going back to school to finish my Bachelors, which I made a priority, even after graduation, the search was never-ending with very little results. The main issue was that most companies required the technical experience you only get if you were actually working in that job for 5-6 years. If that was the case, if employees were already working in those jobs, why would they be looking for that job?

14

More difficult

Like many of the false promises made by the military, I assumed, erroneously, that I would actually have assistance in my transition and the programs would be in place to help facilitate my transition. None of this was true at the time and probably not true now either.

15

Easier

Very seamless transition after PTDY

16

As expected

I knew I had to make finding a job and advancing in that job my first priority.

17

As expected

The civilian world seemed a bit foreign at first. It seemed more unorganized and convoluted.

18

As expected

going from a regimented lifestyle to a non regimented was difficult

19

As expected

I have a job offer 2 weeks prior

20

As expected

Transition was easy as I prepared for for a year but finding a job that paid the bills was very difficult.

21

More difficult

Joined organizations, that never helped

22

More difficult

I thought there would be little to no difference. I was very wrong

23

Easier

I knew it would take some time but 5 interviews and they all wanted me while I was on terminal leave

24

More difficult

I believed my 22 years of service meant it would be an easy transition, but I learned very quickly that a lot of employers don't understand service members. They don't equate our experience as real work experience. Salaries are not matching the jobs and too many other things.

25

Easier

I had a 2nd time when it was necessary to move on to a more amiable environment....that was more difficult for me, because I experienced illness and homelessness for about a year. Currently, I'm a volunteer and I'm okay with this for now. I don't think there's shame in this, just needed help that money or credit couldn't fix.

26

More difficult

The job market is terrible as there are more people looking for work than good full-time paying jobs.

27

More difficult

I lost friends, status and a sense of purpose. One employer (company name removed) actually asked if I had any real skills because all I had ever done was serve my country.

28

More difficult

I thought I'd get out, get some training with my go benefits then work full time.

29

More difficult

Military serve was not a significant factor to employers hiring me for a position. Having a degree before getting out the military can be very helpful.

30

As expected

I expected it to be hard and it was

31

As expected

Stressful but rewarding

32

More difficult

My unit made it hard. I had to balance doing requirements to get out and what they wanted

33

As expected

You need to put full effort during your transition.

34

More difficult

You have to set your expectations. I was a senior non-commissioned officer, had a masters degree, had a PMP certification and thought my god getting the next job is going to be easy...it wasn't.

35

More difficult

Since everyone kept telling me that as a reservist I would slip right back into my life, I believed them. Two months into being back at work I found myself having chest pains as my work conditions were so deplorable that I found it more stressful than being in a combat zone. Knowing that there was more to life and the world, I ended up having to quit that job.

36

As expected

Just getting used to the lack of structure

37

More difficult

My last unit made everything I had to do upon medically boarding out extremely difficult which put me behind on what I needed to do to get ready for civilian life.

38

As expected

I had a place to live and I applied for and received financial aid and the GI bill to continue my education. That made transitioning easier because I entered the job market with my fellow students.

39

As expected

It was just different!

40

As expected

I knew it would be hard, that I needed to have a plan and work the plan, stay positive and be patient

41

More difficult

Didn't understand what employers were looking for in military members.

42

More difficult

Well it was hard to find a good company that wanted to utilize the skills you learned in the military. you run in to prejudice company's that truly are scared to hire veterans. I don't see it as prevelant now as I did in 2012, but the public mood swings over years.

43

More difficult

I was given a new role - hourly versus salary and a junior person with less qualifications and no college was placed into a higher role that was created for him. He was not military. The ESGR was not helpful because they let me keep the salary I had earned. I soon left the company for a better opportunity.

44

More difficult

I have 2 part time jobs and I am a full time student with three children

45

As expected

I believe because of the time limit and support I was given, I was fortunate to maximize the knowledge I acquired from the mandatory and supplemental seminars I received.

46

More difficult

I thought having the title of "jack of all trades" recruiters would be fighting for me. Later I learned that they want a "Master of One".

47

As expected

Luckily for me, I was a hot commodity because I was a newly retired SM with an active security clearance looking for work in a highly technical intelligence discipline, so I was ready for hire and a tax break to the company. Now that the newness of both has worn off and I'm out of work, I'm no different than any other schlep out there whose clearance is on borrowed time and no other acquired skills at present to transition something else.

48

More difficult

The ACAP program is not realistic and does not prepare you for anything; it was merely check the box so everyone who attended could get their out-processing papers signed to retire/ETS

49

Easier

I could have been better prepared for the job interview questions. I found myself having to quickly answer questions about things I had not considered. I got the job. It was a temporary position.

50

More difficult

I was really unsure what it meant to be a civilian I had been in for 6 years. Nothing made sense.

51

More difficult

How ignorant the public was to understanding the military.

52

As expected

Having built up my network prior to my enlistment, I knew it wouldn't be very difficult for me to obtain a position where I would fit in, make good money, and be content. It also helps that I planned on using my GI Bill when I ETS'd, and did so before applying for any jobs.

53

More difficult

I thought I could could work part time but my retirement pay was not enough to sustain my family. So I had to look for full time work that payed more money.

54

More difficult

I viewed the way things were done and managed as being consistent with the "sillyvillian" way of doing things. It took time to adjust to not having an SOP and a higher sense of discipline in the workplace.

55

More difficult

After 10 years active duty, finally had to hide I was a Veteran.

56

More difficult

My brother took me in for a couple months before I was called off a waiting list at the University Family Housing for me and my family. I was on military leave of absence from Best Buy, and went back, receiving the same wage than prior to entering military service, with a lateral promotion to more responsibility, no raise, just like going from Specialist to Corporal in the Army.

57

More difficult

I was ill prepared for finding employment. When I entered the military, the job market was fairly good. By the time I ets'd, the job market was dead. The places I applied to either said I wasn't qualified at all or over qualified for the position I applied for. No one understood I needed a job in order to eat and have a place to live.

58

More difficult

I had a plan and some money saved, but I still panicked a little. I felt a little lost because I had a mission and a focus everyday when I was in. My life slowed down drastically after getting out. I felt a little useless for a short time.

59

As expected

I knew I would struggle because I left the military without a working generic resume

60

More difficult

I thought the transition would be a lot easier. Having worked several years before joining the military you filled out application no resumes. I thought being in the military with all this knowledge and skills that you now have it would be easy to qualify for supervisor/ manager positions but you have to be able to show this in writing.

61

As expected

I put out about 50 resumes and only received two interviews.

62

Easier

I started working during my Terminal Leave, so I was glad to have a job before I was officially retired.

63

As expected

I researched educational and job opportunities prior to leaving the military with the help of friends, family, the VA and various job search agencies.

64

More difficult

Nothing went as expected.

65

More difficult

My biggest adjustment was level of responsibility. As a senior service member I was involved in strategic activity and my voice and opinion mattered. In the civilian world, the expectation was to do my job and my input was normally not solicited or desired. It took a while to grow in to my new roles and skin.The more you identify yourself by the uniform and the job, the harder the transition is.

66

More difficult

Use to working with Soldiers and working with civilians was very different. For example in the Army, we work until the mission is complete. Civilians work until 5 pm.

67

As expected

I had plenty of terminal leave built up to ease the transition pain

68

More difficult

I did not receive any help at all. I had a seven month old child and an eleven year old at the time. My wife was scare, I was scared and there wasn't any help. I went to the local workforce office and was told that I could not even file for unemployment because of separation pay. I did not know that I should have filed a VA disability claim until three years after separation.

69

More difficult

I had a difficult time getting my resume to align with some of the jobs I had interest in in the civilian sector.

70

More difficult

I had no home or family to come back to, which was a lot of it.

71

As expected

It was exactly as I planned it, maybe even easier.

72

As expected

It was exactly as I planned it, maybe even easier.

73

More difficult

All the experience bs

74

More difficult

Being separated with severance pay nobody knew what to do or the benefits that came with it.

75

More difficult

I expected based on rank and experience I would be hired as a supervisor or manager. However the location I relocated to wasn't veteran friendly. I had a degree but no civilian experience.

76

More difficult

I wasn't ready emotionally or mentally, I didn't prepare far enough out prior to retiring.

77

Easier

My transition was fairly easy but I belieeve that is because I appropriately prepared myself. When you leave the military you completely lose the support mechanism you have when you PCS. There is no sponsorship, advanced pay/relocation pay to help with security deposits, new household items, etc.

78

As expected

I had a break in service and had been employed by non military employers and understood that I had to be patient.

79

As expected

I felt well prepared.

80

As expected

MOS transitioned into a civilian career field (medical)

81

More difficult

ACAP had filled us with false information on hiring expectations at that time 2004.

82

More difficult

Took longer than expected

83

More difficult

I struggled to find a career that seemed purposeful. I let that keep me from having a job for slightly over a year upon getting out. Because of that I wasted all of my saving. Plan ahead and work your plan.

84

More difficult

I received no help at all. You too are totally on your own. Transition help is nothing more than a band aid for a bullet hole. America needs a culture change. Until wounded warriors are protected, no service member has a chance.

85

Easier

I as a SGM who was scooped up by the government for job developing combat equipment before I retired. I started working before I was technically out of the military. I got lucky due to my rank and technical skills and being seen by the right person.

86

As expected

level of bureaucracy and redundancy

87

More difficult

I went back to my previous job, but left a year later. I was under-employed and often in classes for the next two years.

88

More difficult

No jobs that pay well enough. If you can't afford to maintain your previous lifestyle everything starts to decline. Living situation, mental health, everything.

89

Easier

Due to response/feedback from my online resume (created with assistance from ACAP); I was recruited for my current career field while on transitional leave.

90

More difficult

It's really hard to walk in with a high level of professionalism and start at the bottom again with a group of childish adults.

91

More difficult

It was the recessiion, and I was in a small town. I was just finishing school.

92

More difficult

I thought with my experience and knowledge that I would get a good paying job right out of the gate and that people would value my service but that was all just false hopes so the process was really depressing.

93

More difficult

Was not prepared for no one to actually care that I was a Veteran. Didn't seem to matter when applying for jobs.

94

As expected

I found a part time job that fit with my school schedule. I was a full time student.

95

More difficult

Kicked out fast, was never actually given a plan as most soldiers are. I didn't even have a dollar to my name or a way home.

96

More difficult

Civilians run things differently.

97

More difficult

I signed my dd214, and it was pretty much, here ya go, Civi life.

98

More difficult

I come from a small town with almost zero opportunities so when I separated I had nowhere to go but back to that town. I was also 18 when I joined and separated when I was 22 so employers didn't take me seriously since I was so young.

99

As expected

Lots of variables popped up throughout the experience that hadnt been planned for, so while expected they were an issue.

100

More difficult

Every day is a kick in the balls!!! I have earned both a bachelors and masters degree while I was on active duty. I though I'd be in a decent paying job a few months after I retired. I just hit 7 months and I've had only 4 interview with no job offers. I can't even count how many jobs I applied to.

101

More difficult

Nothing worked and the job I have is less than ideal

102

More difficult

My biggest wake up call was the salary I expected and the salary I started with at my first employer. The resume process was difficult to decipher, but not impossible.

103

More difficult

I would say the biggest difficulty was the time I allowed for the transition process. I waited to the last minute, partially due to deployment, but this has made everything almost like I was in emergency mode. I had to prioritize the many aspects of the transition process with employment often taking the back seat. I relied on my success in the service will carry over into the civilian workplace.

104

More difficult

I couldn't fill out a federal application at the time That was on paper but there was someone at the unemployment office that was very helpful

105

More difficult

I have filled out over 100 application and have a very good resume. I fill out at lease 3 application per day on average with over 20 years experience in team management I thought I would find a job with in 2 1/2 months near some fairly large cities near my residents

106

As expected

I planned early for my transition from military to college. I did not experience anything unexpected.

107

More difficult

No help, struggled with PTSD...

108

More difficult

The large cut in pay, poor benefits with large out of pocket expenses made it extremely difficult on me and my family.

109

As expected

I thought it was going to be a challenge and that I would have to prove my worth, and that was the case. I took a job that allowed me to go to school, and the starting pay was less than I might have gotten elsewhere, but getting my degree was more important than the short term financial gain of going somewhere else.

110

More difficult

I was surprised how few people appreciated the life experience I had from.the military especially in comparison to my peers and being in the guard the fear of redeployment scared many away.

111

As expected

I transitioned out once before. This time was much better because I know that I have a retirement paycheck which makes life much less stressful.

112

Easier

Not difficult at all.

113

More difficult

I thought there would be more jobs available.

114

Easier

I was a career counselor in the Army working in transition assistance program and am now a LVER with the state

115

More difficult

Transitioning from the Army to civilian life is hard because 1) I had to learn to talk about common military activities with more than detail and in a way they could understand. 2) Despite 20 years of leadership experience in a wide variety of job activities civilians look for supervisors that have more specific experience related to the work activities.

116

Easier

I listened to my TAP instructors. They pointed me in the right direction.

117

As expected

I anticipated the level of change and inner struggles that would transpire.

118

More difficult

It was difficult because I had no clue just how much help was actually available to me

119

More difficult

Even today, I have problems with the ways other businesses conduct their business. It's a certain way in the military and that's how you do it.

120

More difficult

Given my medical issues and a highly competitive job market, I found it very difficult to get employment that allowed me to have an income above the poverty line, let alone live as comfortably as when I was in the military. I am still underemployed, and I still run into problems with meeting expectations where employers know that there are 10 people who are waiting in line to replace workers.

121

More difficult

Aside from working directly for the Army upon immediate separation, when I decided to relocate entirely away from military installations and seek employment, it took nearly two years to find a career-oriented job.

122

Easier

I was lucky to get my first job because things aligned very well and I wanted to work in Washington, DC.

123

As expected

I expected it to be difficult. I was used to living on someone else's schedule and for every action on the job to have potentially large implications for a lot of people. Being a full-time student is exactly the opposite. You have to be 100% self-directed and your decisions affect only you (and yours). Without mandatory PT my physical condition rapidly deteriorated and once it did I had little incentive to do anything (for more than a decade after separation).

124

As expected

The hardest thing was getting the right definition of my military job skills to match my civilian work jobs.

125

More difficult

Nothing was as expected as had been conveyed by the TAP.

126

As expected

My transition was unexpected--a family illness resulted in a Hardship Discharge.

127

More difficult

I had little help and didn't know how to find a job that translated from the military to civilian life

128

As expected

Young and new to the workforce I expected to have to start at an entry level. The job I wanted required attending an academy much like basic training.

129

As expected

When I left the military, I enrolled into college to finish my BS degree in Aeronautics, graduated Dec 1985.

130

More difficult

When I completed my one year mobilization and eventually retired there was no career transition course to go to. I had been applying for employment almost a year before I retired with response from companies. I was only able to obtain employment through my former employer in a different position.

131

More difficult

I was told that I had the experience but not enough education. So I went back to school and now I'm being told that I'm over qualified for jobs that fit my qualifications and even some that I thought I wasn't qualified for.

132

More difficult

I have been applying to jobs science I came back from duty, and I never get a chance. I recognize that in some cases I didn't fulfill the requirements but in the most I can be referred. Are the points for being a Veteran for real?

133

More difficult

I still don't feel transitioned after 22yrs, I feel stuck in a rut

134

More difficult

My transition to the civilian workforce took a lot longer than I had expected. My first offer I received was for a position that was well below my capabilities, however this led to a better position. I have had difficulties in finding meaningful work in (city, TX). Although I am very qualified by experience, I only have an Associate's Degree which has left me

135

Easier

I was in the administrative field in the Army and I was able to obtain full-time employment with my skills. Also, I drop out of college before going into the active duty Army. After being out of the Army for six years, I went back to college and obtain a bachelor's degree which was quite essential in obtaining more job options.

136

More difficult

my resume did not translate well. I sounded like I had a much less important job than I actually performed in the army.

137

More difficult

The requirements are very high, and you have to do more work for less pay with minimal benefits.

138

More difficult

Thought I'd have work faster

139

More difficult

Honestly I had no idea what the transition would be like I was very young the first time I got out of the service and basically floundered as a civilian. I returned to the military, gained different skills and experience, and my second transition went much smoother.

140

More difficult

At the time it was expected that companies were eager to hire vets. They weren't hiring anyone at the time and vets preference didn't matter.

141

More difficult

Not really a difficulty but an uncertainty.

142

Easier

Began transitioning a year out from my retirement.

143

Easier

I was married and my husband was also a veteran and we were attending the same college. I was also working full time while attending school full time. No time to worry about not fitting in.

144

More difficult

Expected hiring managers to respect and want my military experience. This was rarely the case.

145

Easier

I managed to secure a job over a month before my transition leave started and was on transition leave for a month after I started working.

146

As expected

I didnt have any expectations. I went to school for a one year certification and was hired before I graduated.

147

More difficult

Eviction, unemployment, substance abuse, stress

148

More difficult

lack of information

149

More difficult

It is harder to leave military service and become a successful civilian than it is to join the military and become a successful servicemember. I don't know anyone who's doing better out of the military.

150

More difficult

Combat Engineer equates to construction laborer. And not many places are looking for guys with explosives handling in the civillian market that i have seen. To go with that i would end up shelling out nearly $3500 in order to get all the licenses required for my home state.

151

More difficult

As a medic, I learned amazing skills and had a great education. When I transitioned, the only thing I had to offer to an employer with a basic EMT certification. In the civilian world, basic EMTs make an excellent volunteers, but has no real use in any full-time employment

152

Easier

The only complaint I have with my transition is the CIF, equipment turn-in portion. The civilians weren't very helpful, in fact, they were the hardest part of my transition. They would look at a clean, new item, and kick it back. I was told on several occasions that I wouldn't be able to clear them in one day. I took that to mean that they would make sure I couldn't. Then when that was about to happen, I went through the turn-in process again that same day and finally cleared everything.

153

Easier

I didn't know what to expect.

154

More difficult

I had no plan, no assistance from anyone who knew about these types of things and no idea where to go or what to do.

155

More difficult

with no transition help it was very difficult to translate my training into civilian terms to help find a job that was best matched to my skills, it took a very long time to find a job which I was very over qualified for below standard pay. It was also hard to find an employer that wanted to hire a Vet returning from combat.

156

More difficult

Of all the difficult things I had to do in my life including going to war, the most difficult thing I have ever done was transition to the civilian life. In fact, I think we never really fully transition into civilian life.

157

As expected

I took two months to prepare to enter the civilian work force. I decompressed from the Army and allowed myself time to get things right.

158

Easier

NO

159

As expected

Soldiers, particularly men, don't talk about their emotions. Emotionally, separation from the military, and reintegration into civilian life after working in a combat zone, is difficult. The world is very different and the expectations of those around you are different. You need someone to talk with about your emotions, preferably someone you trust and who has been in a similar situation.

160

As expected

My first job was in Houston, TX. A conservative community that valued my military experience. I could be myself and they didn't have any problems with it.

161

More difficult

I became very depressed. I was always on the go in the military and finally my world stopped. It was very hard to adjust to the civilian culture as opposed to the military culture. I no longer had the support systems I was used to. I was moving and doing things on my own as opposed to with a squad or platoon. I did not expect to be affected by this.

162

More difficult

Getting out, I was dead set on honesty and respect. It's all a show, you have to make the interviewer remember you, and be more impressed by you than the other guy.

163

More difficult

There was no one stop shop to get assistance with finding a job that matched your skills. You were on your own.

164

More difficult

My employers didn't recognize your skills or past experiences. You are not valued and are just someone else. Your skills and experience intimidate other employees especially management.

165

As expected

I was in the National Guard so transitioning for me was not as difficult because I was more accustomed to civilian lifestyle.

166

More difficult

The length of time to transfer my security clearance prevented me from accepting a higher-paying job. I was ill prepared for the slow pace of the civilian workforce.

167

As expected

It was about what I expected, meaning stressful and challenging, but not impossible. Once you get close enough to your ETS, your command stops caring about you so much as you're seen as "on the way out" and they'd rather spend time on the soldiers that are "choosing to dedicate their career to the military", so don't expect a lot of support/empathy.

168

Easier

since my military time was weekends and 2 weeks in the summer, transition was easy.

169

More difficult

Didn't know what to expect and had no preparation.

170

More difficult

I was not prepared for the lack of feedback with applications.

171

More difficult

Structure military to civilian more of a change than I thought

172

As expected

I work directly on the military installation I had previously work at. So I was familiar with the area the mission. Therefore, I felt like I have not left the military. I still support the mission.

173

More difficult

I used my transition days, once I was done with the TAP classes, each day, to hit up as many job locations and web sites as were available. They were all, every last one of them, useless.

174

More difficult

The initial year after getting out was very difficult. I had lost something in my life that a portion of me believed was the only way to exist.

175

More difficult

I expected to receive a job as a supervisor or manager with a degree and experience I had. Found out not having any civilian experience in the field was detrimental to that level of success.

176

As expected

No one told me shit about the transition!

177

As expected

I had received plenty of input from co-workers that helped inform my expectations. Had I relied solely on what was set in the transition class I would have likely never left the Army. Its almost like a scared straight program.

178

More difficult

Nothing went as planned.

179

More difficult

In my case it is very difficult because of my health problem that i got during my military days. I got surgeries so i have limited scope about jobs that i want to apply or get.

180

As expected

Somewhat difficult

181

More difficult

I didnt gain enough experience to hold a job in the career field of my choice.

182

Easier

It wasnt hard at all

183

More difficult

For instance, my MOS was, at the time, 36M, tactical Switching systems operator. In theory, I SHOULD have been able to get hired at the phone company. But instead I got a job as a receptionist at a construction company.

184

Easier

I already retired from the federal government service due to the same medical reasons as the military throwing me away!

185

As expected

Already knew what to expect

186

As expected

I was fortunate because of my previous active-duty position I knew the federal organization I was being hired into, plus I knew the mission, location, and personnel of the organization which I used to help lead.

187

More difficult

Location I moved to did not support my skill set.

188

More difficult

Competing as a civilian with a military background is difficult as you are at a disadvantage from the beginning.

189

As expected

It was incredibly difficult, but not in the ways I expected. What was expected was how difficult it was. it was also absolutely worth it, 100%.

190

More difficult

I was still waking up for the "watch" and learning how to sleep normally. Getting used to dealing with civilians who had no inkling of basic courtesies and respect was hard.

191

As expected

it was not difficult.

192

Easier

ON THE SCALE OF 1-10 MAYBE A 4.

193

More difficult

Figured I would walk right into the perfect job making the kind of money I was looking for. Turns out in the state of NC, pay is less than many other states.

194

More difficult

I got married a week after I transitioned out of the Army. My husband was still in so I had a good support network. However it was harder than I realized because I kept this feeling that I was leaving behind my brothers and sisters still in the service. FB makes it easier to keep in touch but there are many I will never see again. For those people it really feels like cutting a connection or bond. I know that probably doesn't make sense, logically but it's hard to shake it.

195

More difficult

I think it was difficult for me because when I first started looking for jobs in the same career field I had on active duty. Because I did not have the required degree and/or certification, it was extremely difficult even getting interviews.

196

More difficult

It was one of the most difficult struggles of my life.

197

More difficult

I thought I was more competitive than I was

198

As expected

I had a plan, so the transition program only provided me with info that was unaware of such as the VA process

199

As expected

For me it was more of a cultural transition back into society. When you come from such a close group of a platoon or company and transition into a new civilian job where no one cares about their job or if you show up not its a big change.

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